Over The Bull®

#25 - Tangled - Tools, Traps, and the Human Touch

• Integris Design LLC • Season 1 • Episode 25

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What does Greek mythology have to do with AI? In this episode of Over the Bull, we open with the story of Icarus—powerful wings that led to his downfall—and connect it to how even billion-dollar companies misuse AI. We explore customer backlash, why small businesses can’t afford the same mistakes, and how to balance automation with the human touch. Featuring real quotes, current trends, and a simple analogy that proves AI is just a tool—the build still takes strategy.

MARKETING TREND ARTICLES:

Customer Backlash, Emotional Intelligence & AI Complaints

  • ServiceNow (UK AI Customer Perception Study):

https://www.servicenow.com/uk/blogs/2025/how-uk-customers-feel-about-ai

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Over The Bull is brought to you by IntegrisDesign.com. All rights reserved.

SPEAKER_00:

You're listening to Over the Bull, where we cut through marketing noise. Here's your host, Ken Carroll.

SPEAKER_01:

Are you familiar with the story of Icarus? It's the story of where he had these wings fashioned from wax, and he was basically warned not to fly too close to the sun. And the story ends with him flying too close to the sun, and the very thing that gave him freedom is the very thing that ultimately caused his demise. Now, we're going to talk about getting tangled up in this episode of Over the You really want to stay tuned for this. Hi, I'm Ken, and let's dive straight into the discussion. So why I'm going to call this episode Tangled is that's exactly what I'm sensing when it comes to this whole idea of artificial intelligence, small businesses, what they can do to use it, all the challenges that they face with it, and exactly what to do. Because the thing is, the right tool and the right application can be powerful, but the right tool in the wrong instance could be disastrous. So let me start with a couple of quotes here because I think it will set the pace for the challenges we're going to discuss today. So quote number one, many customers feel trapped in endless loops with big tech companies, AI chatbots that are left waiting days or even weeks for meaningful support. Now, this is from customer experienced trends of 2024. Pull quote number two. Working with large tech companies can feel like shouting into the void. You get routed to forums or unhelpful automated responses, and it's nearly impossible to get a real human to understand your problem. Now, this is from Global Tech Support Survey, also in 2024. And let's go ahead and round it out with one more quote. Sixty numbers of respondents in the UK believe that AI chatbots fail to pick up on emotional cues like tone or frustration leading to a decline in trust. And this is from ServiceNow Study 2024. So the point is that if billion-dollar companies cannot get this right on how to incorporate the AI tech, imagine the danger that your business could sustain because you don't have the resources, you don't have the market control these big companies have to make the mistakes that they're making. Now, it also shows you that if these very companies struggle with how to use this technology, you can imagine that on your scale, how to harness it appropriately could be a huge challenge. Now, for me, for example, I know that when I go to any kind of chatbot system and I detect that it's an AI mechanism, I just typically ask for a person. I don't want to talk to a chat system. As a matter of fact, the way that I interpret that a lot of times is that the company that's forcing me to do it doesn't care about the customer service that I get, and all they're worried about is the bottom line, and they're costing people jobs who could probably help me out. I also don't see a decrease in my subscriptions. And so I also see that they're making more money to boot. So I do more of the work. I have to do more of the follow-ups. They make the same amount of money and they cut overhead from their business. Now, that's the way I see it. Now, you may see things a little bit differently, but as we transition through this, if I had a choice to avoid some of these tech companies, I would absolutely do it. But they have such a stranglehold on the market, some of them are hard to do. Now, you as a small business, you probably don't have that market share. So for you to offer a premium solution for clients that is good for them while embracing technology is the challenge. So let's look at a few more of these situations. I want to set this thing up a little bit. So here's why we can't ignore artificial Well, first of all, it's the momentum that it's picking up is crazy. You know, we've shared statistics about how popular AI tools are getting and how people are circumventing a lot of the traditional search engines in favor of things like ChatGPT. So you want to go back and check that out if you've not been following the podcast. But one of those quotes is 96% Now, TechRadar 2025 put this out. So, as you can see, we're starting to see the tension here. We're starting to see the entanglement of what's going on. Let's look at this one, too. Creators report conversion rates as high as 98% through direct messaging. Okay, that's huge. And then affiliate marketing is shifting into video-first and social commerce experiences with platforms like TikTok Shop and Instagram Shopping driving the next wave of success. And again, this is TechRadar. So the point is that artificial intelligence is not optional. Now, the question is, how do you use it? Because there are multiple mechanisms that you need to consider as you go through it. Like, for example, when we start off, we see that the technological frustrations of trying to go through an AI system that typically puts you in a loop and causes frustration and you have all these kind of problems. But then on the other side, if you can properly harness artificial intelligence in the right ways, then what you can do is you can create a nice experience and then you can offer something that's a little more seamless when you have smaller staffs and you have the challenges that small businesses have. So the question is, is what do you do about this? Because if we were to really seriously look at what's going on the internet today, we're constantly being, you know, just hit with this concept that you can do these things yourself. And so the question is, can you? Or are we dealing with just clever sales pitches that are geared to make you think that you can do something, bypass things? Because in marketing, one of the things that appeals to people is being smarter than everyone else. And if they think that they can save money by doing things themselves, then they feel that they've one-upped or somehow came up with something that's super clever that no one else has thought of. Now, some of this is intentional. because they want you to think that you can do that. Now, the question is, as we're navigating through today's session, can you really do that legitimately? And can you afford to make mistakes, especially when we have these factors such as your budget that goes into the equation or where you should spend your resources or your business reputation? When you start incorporating all these factors into the mix, the question is, can you do that? Should you do that? And I keep going back to the Jeff Goldblum quote from Jurassic Park, which loosely paraphrased is, you know, you wondered if you could do it, but you never stopped to think that if you should do it. And to me, that's becoming almost my catchphrase for 2025. So as we're looking at it, I want to kind of keep going through a few more points, and then I kind of want to go full circle. So The idea of search engine optimization, let's flip the coin and kind of put that in your pocket, what we talked about. And then what I want to do is I want to talk about how search engine optimization is transforming into something called GEO, or generative engine optimization. So if we look at a pull quote, let's grab this one. Generative engine optimization, or GEO, is the future of digital marketing in an AI- This is from Economic Times 2025. Now, this is really important because a lot of you may fall into this trap where if AI is giving the answers and artificial intelligence is doing all these things, well, what is the value of having a website? So TechRadar, they quickly, you know, put that down by saying, you know, websites still matter, but they cannot survive on their own. And so the idea is that, you know, first of all, the idea of a website standing on its own is not realistic. It's not been realistic for some time. A website is a home base. It's essential for your business. As far as I can see, it's going to remain essential for your business because it's going to feed all these mechanisms that are evolving. Now, of course, we can't see the future, but for the foreseeable future, this is your home base. So do not think that you're going to be able to revert back to, you know, some of the early days of the internet where one of the recommendations was, well, you know, if you can't afford to have a website, at least have a Facebook page. You know, those days are long in the past and the complexity is just getting more and more. So as we move forward, let's talk about a few other things here Um... So the idea is creating, one, creating content that is valuable for, well, let me back out of this. That's not really where I want to go. Where I really want to start with this is to start with the idea of taking AI, but then using it in the proper way, but then also building your website in a way that AI finds it friendly. And this is, believe it or not, this is really a complex And so when you look at websites today, what goes into a website really has to start dramatically changing. And, you know, one of those terms that we talked about was something called schema. And so schema is a short code or not a short code, but it's a way to tell search engine or, you know, AI and different things. even traditional search engine, what your content is about. So the idea is to properly format your pages, but also properly structure your pages. Because if you start to dive into it, you start to find a lot of nuances that have to be carefully thought through that you just can't put into a system. And this idea of picking a pretty template and then using AI to build your content and throw We're just seeing the demise of that, but we're also seeing a lot of the companies that provide these services still flourish because they're still selling the myth that this can be done really on the low tech. And what we're seeing is an avalanche of new technology, new marketing strategies, new everything that's burying these services and only giving the facilities that they need. facade that they have the ability to still function in a way that's meaningful to businesses. Now, the problem is, is that there's a lot of issues with humans. So the first is the herd mentality. For example, if a bazillion websites or companies are using it, then obviously it's working for them. That's not true. Most businesses underperform or fail. And so the idea is to sell them something that is cheap and easy is more just appealing to a psychological inclination and is not an indicator of success. It just says that the psychology behind the product is working. So when you think about it in those terms, the herd mentality is something that can really push you into the wrong direction. So as we move forward and start pushing through this, you're going to see, hopefully, what I'm trying to paint here as a big picture. So let's talk about balance, and then let's talk about what we do, and let's talk about how we handle a budget, and let's talk about how we build you a plan that makes sense for you. And then as we talk about this, my ultimate goal is that you can look at whatever resources you're using and then saying, okay, are these issues effectively being addressed from my current solution, or am I just following the herd? Am I just using the same technology other companies are using because that's what's done? Because my big argument at the end of the day is that this is going to become more and more of a mistake because the tech companies aren't even really sure what to do. Because keep in mind that if the huge tech companies can't figure out what to do with artificial intelligence, the smaller vertical companies that are in or incorporating artificial intelligence into their system or incorporating chatbots or whatever, they certainly are going to struggle with how to use that system. You know, the creators can't do it, so the trickle-down people probably also cannot exactly figure out how to handle it. Now, we also do. I mean, let's be intellectually honest here. We also have to keep in mind that it appears that, at least from an tech companies don't really care what you think. And they're so big, they don't have to care what you think. And so maybe the haphazardness of using this technology is just from a fact of indifference. I had a client talk to me just yesterday, as a matter of fact, and he said, are there any alternatives to Google for advertising in his particular instance? And I said, no, you can't abandon Google right now. But there were certain things it made him raise an eyebrow. So you see that there's that you've got to put into this equation too. However, I think that we can all come to the conclusion that if they had it figured out and they could easily do it and keep people happy, they probably would do it. So anyway, let's talk about human balance and automation. So if we go to quantum metric report in 2024, it says 42% of consumers admit to being ruder to AI chatbots than to human agents, largely because they don't believe bots resolve their issues effectively. And this is why we need to look at this idea, okay? Do we incorporate chatbots, you know, because that's something that a lot of people ask. Do we automate direct messaging in meta, you know, where people can get more of a personalized experience? Do we focus on citations so that when ChatGPT is talking to people about your business, do we want that conversation to be more relevant? And of course, we're all tainted. Like, for example, as I was exploring this, I go, I hate it. I just absolutely hate it. When I go in there and I have to, first of all, if I don't know if it's a bot and I start talking to it and I find out it is, I feel like I've been kind of manipulated. But then secondly, if I hit the bot right out of the gate, I'm like, this is what a pain to sit here and take five minutes and say, I don't want to talk to you. No, I don't want to describe my problem to you. No, I don't want to do that. I just want to talk to a person. And for me, I find that incredibly frustrating. But, you know, as we talked about in the last podcast, when you talk about the different generations, you start to see different generations are affected by different things. Now, if the study that I presented last week is any reflection on generational influences. The generations after my generation is going to be even more sticklers about this and this fine-tuning. You get to the generation alpha and you find out that they're resistant to anything that looks inauthentic, you know, which would be, you know, manipulating someone based upon what they've been to or what what they visited. So that balance is incredibly tricky. And so finding out exactly where you should institute a chatbot and where you should institute human beings, and even when you say institute chatbots, you really should put a question mark there. And I know that's kind of a dramatic statement, but depending upon your market and depending upon the expectation, you really need to be careful how you do this because you can come across as being indifferent and you don't have the pull that these big companies are getting away with right now. So let's try to put all this together into something that you can practically use for your business. So the first thing that we can safely say is that AI tools are just like any other tool. If you use them in the right way, they can be good. Use them in the bad way, they can be bad. What this should tell you is that you don't go out and just buy a tool because it sounds like it's going to be good, because we're also trying to balance our budgets at the same time and make sure that our effort is used effectively. And so if you go out and you just chase the latest and greatest thing just because it has the word AI attached to it or a large language model attached to it, I believe you're making a mistake. And the reason being is you have to think of the grander scope, your target audience, what their expectation is, and how you're going to differentiate yourself from your competitors. But you also don't want to miss this boat either. Now, when it comes to building the plan, the idea is that it's getting more complicated. It's not getting easier. Like, for example, one thing I was exploring, to some extent, I was exploring because I come from a traditional search engine optimization background. I've won awards on it and, you know, historical awards, things like that. And so part of me was going, how does that change? So I'll give you one of the thoughts that I was debating. And that is typically when you do search engine optimization, What you do is you pick target keywords for each page, and each page should have its own unique target keyword, and then it should have its unique title tag, unique, you know, whatever may have you. And the idea is you want to kind of create that content that's all centric around that information. And the more you do that, typically the more that search engines understand what those pages are about, and then if you follow best EEAT practices, then a lot of times that is a, well, it is a big contributor in your visibility, which is huge. Now, when you move to the idea of artificial intelligence, it's a little bit different because the idea is that it's more conversational language. So first, we got to get into conversational language, authentic language, and expertise. So those are things that are really non-negotiable when you're creating content. So you can imagine a letting AI create robotic content that can be detected by AI tools that it's AI content. You can imagine the problem that you would have if your search engine optimization guy is just running through and cranking out articles using ChatGPT or Grok or some of these other tools. I believe there's going to be a backlash, and I think we're already kind of seeing that with some of the stuff going on with YouTube. And so So the idea is when you're going through and you're trying to put together the game plan. So the new question is not only the content of conversation, but also there's the question of how do you lay out that content? Because is it more important to lay out services on the homepage and then have direct links? Should we go back to putting sitemaps in the footer of the website to give quicker cues to large language models, AI stuff, for GAIO, Google Artificial Intelligence, et cetera, et cetera. And then the question becomes testing that out, and then how should that lay out on a page? Because if you start to lay out your services in a different fashion on the homepage of the website to more accommodate AI, then you're kind of pushing again And to kind of navigate those waters and find those happy spots without doing some of the things which are quickly becoming, you know, more and more antiquated. Like, for example, putting all the cities you serve in the footer of the website, you know, things that SEO people are still doing because they traditionally work as we're transitioning to this brave new world. world of AI, the question is, is what do you do? How do you test it? And what are those metrics that we're trying to target? The other thing is, as I, you know, as I've shared, I will, I will definitely work with Chad GPT, talk to it, get information that helps me make decisions. Like, for example, I'm getting ready to look into build a pond. It's just, I'm the a hobbyist. I like working out in the yard and stuff. And so I am referring to it. But if I were to go to a store that offers pond supplies for building and I confronted AI in that environment, I would be very resistant to that. But I'm very open to the idea of discussing it on ChatGPT. Now, the psychology behind that, honestly, I really don't know. Maybe I have different expectations the more I get closer to that point of purchase. Maybe I want to transition from a bot experience to a human experience, and one location is acceptable and another one is not. Now, that could also just be me. So the idea is if I was your customer, and I did all my homework on chat GPT, and then I'm ready to make a decision, and then I hit another bot, and I have to start from the ground up, and then I had the frustration to get a call from a person, you may have just lost me. So you can kind of see those movements. And then from a website perspective, let's take that same pond company and let's just say, let's talk about a pump where you're going to pump water up to a waterfall and then have it kind of cycle through the artificial pond. If you were to take that one step further and I'm talking about a pump and I'm asking Chad GPT about that and then you own the pond store The question is, if I'm asking specifically about pumps and pumps is on, you know, buried somewhere on your website to where it looks like it's not as important to your company, will ChatGPT more than likely not refer to you on the pump conversation, but maybe in more general pool conversation? So you can kind of see that the gymnastics to get around and set up the website and then use the proper schema and setup and all those things in the mix, you can imagine just the sheer complexity of it. So one of the things that I compared this to a couple weeks ago was in Meta. One of the quotes I pulled was to the equivalent that Meta is going to equalize the playing field for small businesses and big businesses with their new marketing approach using AI and at the end of 2026. And the idea is that that sounds really good, but all that does is just raise the floor. It doesn't bring down the ceiling. All it does is say, now you've got to understand this level of technology in order to even play, because that's the new ground. That's not the new ceiling. And so the people that absorb that new baseline and then are able to use that and then do better from that point up, you can imagine we'll do better. And you can also imagine those that don't embrace that new baseline are going to be below the baseline. They'll be on the floor and not being able to even get to the same point. And of course, big businesses have bigger budgets and that's always going to be part of this whole equation. And so how does a business like yours go about it. Well, if you could imagine not being able to address this and not being able to really understand it, you can imagine that with all of the inundation of the junk spammy emails, all the people promising that they've got the best solutions in the entire world, all this noise that goes on that just makes you think that what's going on, if you just start chasing this stuff and putting money to it, and then at the same time hurting your business reputation, you could imagine the disastrous results that could happen from trying to chase it without that direction in place. And then, you know, one thing that when I've always taught people about marketing today, I use the example of an old watch, you know, with the gears and the cogs and all that stuff. And the idea is that if you have them aligned you have a watch. If you've got a missile on, you don't have a watch. Well, now you can imagine the intricacies of each one of these gears in marketing because it's kind of like when you dive into the human body and you start going deeper and deeper, you realize that the complexity of the human body and the concept of a simple cell was not there. Well, now you can imagine that digging into each one of these mediums and AI and choosing the right tools is just as complex It's just not getting easier. But the people that sell the product know you want easy, and so they make it sound as though it's easy, and they have a solution, which, of course, they don't. So that's where you're at. And if you're frustrated with technology and business and all that, this is why you're there, because you're kind of jumping from point to point, and you're trusting that for some reason that tech companies are altruistic, which absolutely they are not altruistic. They're out to make money just like you are. So how do you do this? Number one is you start by building goals. If you start with goals, just like if you were starting to build a shed or a pond or a house or whatever, if you know what the end goal is, then you know the tools that more than likely you need to use. However, if you haven't built a house and someone tells you you can do it yourself, you're going to make a lot of mistakes. So the idea of referring to to a professional is a way that you can get around that. But you got to find the right professional because, unfortunately, in this world we live in, people claim one thing and they're definitely not that. I mean, I've shared with you many times where, you know, there are courses going on right now where people are claiming that someone can take a, you know, what, a week course or a weekend course or a six-week course or whatever and then become, you know, experts in web development. You know, our team, we spend years bringing people up to get them to where they can do meaningful work and the work that's produced is absolutely amazing. But it's not something that you can just say, hey, go take this weekend course and then come back and now you have everything you need to know. Now, if you look at the complexity of what's going on with the web, you're quickly seeing that the hobbyist, the weekend warrior, the freelance answer is going to get further and further behind and the tools that they use to create things with are going to be less and less effective. So by setting goals and working with the right people, you can isolate the tools so long as you can resist the urge to chase the next thing or the next sales pitch or the person punching holes in what your person who's building your plan is doing. Your digital marketing professional. there's also some rub. So the rub is this. Traditionally, creating content that is lengthy is something that search engines like. Now, when I say length, there's not a recipe there for length, okay? But the idea is to, if you create something that's a certain amount of content, let's just say hypothetically 1,200 words. And that is strictly hypothetically. Don't mark that down as something you should do. But let's just say in this particular instance, a 1200-word article, AI likes more succinct answers. It likes more direct conversational answers, and it doesn't like the lengthy answers. However, the lengthy answers is really part of what we all believe is still feeding the traditional SEO model, which is why you're seeing it transition to GEO versus SEO. So as you're diving through it, you know, this tangled web that we're seeing and kind of like this Icarus thing where we're even seeing the people that, you know, make the proverbial wings of Icarus. They can't even harness it. They can't even figure it out. I mean, they're doing such a bad job to where if they didn't have just a complete stranglehold on the market, they would suffer. So you can't do that. You can't afford to do that if you're a small business. And if real companies customer service is the thing that's going to make you stand out, then maybe that's something that you could focus on. Hey, with us, you talk to real people. By the way, that's something that we focus on at Integris. We don't think that, call me crazy, but our clients, I just don't believe, want to talk to an AI system. Now, I could be wrong, and the technology could really start moving in a more advanced direction, but our thing is we are those people. So when you're working with it, and by the way, let's just side note this, when you're looking at a SWOT analysis, which are your strengths, weaknesses, opportunities, and threats, when you're thinking about those things, you know, one of your strengths and what makes you offset and what makes you better than the other people is maybe you do invest in a real company. customer service situation. And maybe you can find a market that's willing to pay a little bit more so they don't have to go through the frustration of AI systems. Now, you could also be very deliberate in how you use AI. For example, some innocuous questions, you know, like, you know, hours of operation or maybe quick points into the right direction before you go to the person, the real person or things like that. All those have been merit and thought, but they also need to be carefully guided by someone who doesn't just want to sell you the tool, but wants to help you develop the plan. So, as we're going through this, the challenge is to not get tangled up in it. The challenge is to realize there's no magic bullets. The challenge is to realize that you want to use everything very strategically, and you want to hyper-focus on the expectation of your customer while not getting left behind by completely ignoring technology. And the best way to do that is through a professional. So maybe this will help you as you're trying to navigate those waters and help you optimize your budgets and help you figure out the best way to take everything we put into consideration and then work with a professional and then avoid the do-it-yourself systems that are teasing you into making you think that somehow you can save money or do this or do that. Because remember, at the end of the day, the reason you're in business is to be in business to do what you do. You're not in business to get tied into all these nuances and all these problems and spend all night trying to figure all this stuff out because we live it. We have a team and we live it. And the one thing that I can tell you is that it takes a lot to authentically keep your hands wrapped around it and not just become part of the clanging noise in the background that's part of the confusion. So I hope this helps you out. I hope this gives you a little bit of perspective. And until next time, this is Ken with Over the Bull.

SPEAKER_00:

Thanks for tuning in to Over the Bull, brought to you by Integris Design, a full-service design and marketing agency out of Asheville, North Carolina. Until next time.